Forum:Does anyone here speak...
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I'm afraid I'm beginning to bore you all with these forums. Be that as it may, I've been meaning to start something like this for a while.
As I am fairly sure you know, there are many Uncyclopedias that are small and inactive and have no or few speakers of their languages working on them. So I'm going to ask here - are there any speakers of the following languages that are willing and able to contribute to their Uncyclopedias?
- Asturianu (Asturian)
- Беларуская (Belarusian)
- বাংলা (Bangla)
- Bosanski (Bosnian)
- Català (Catalan)
- Cymraeg (Welsh)
- Dalmacija (Dalmatian)
- Eesti (Estonian)
- Frysk (Frisian)
- Gaeilge (Irish)
- 𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌹𐍃𐌺 (Gothic)
- Hrvatski (Croatian)
- Հայերեն (Armenian)
- Íslenska (Icelandic)
- Basa Jawa (Javanese)
- ქართული (Georgian)
- Latina (Latin)
- Lëtzebuergesch (Luxembourgish)
- Македонски (Macedonian)
- Bahasa Melayu (Malay)
- Srpski (Serbian)
- Basa Sunda
- tlhIngan Hol (Klingon)
- West-Vlams (edit: formally it is western Flemish, but the number of native speakers is so limited that I decided to allow every Flemish dialect. Also quite wondering how "vls" appeared as ISO-language code for just the western dialect variant... 22:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC))
Some of these wikis have users that contribute sporadically or have been inactive for a while; many of them have had no users active for several months, or even years. Many of them contain almost countless spam pages, often weeks or months old. On fy:, for example, I am currently in the process of digging through old spam edits and reverting them. However, I am unable to contribute in a positive way to that wiki as I don't know Frisian.
I cannot contribute very easily to any of these wikis. The only language of those I have listed that I have a half-decent ability with is Welsh, and I am learning it but I still have some difficulties and my articles are probably in need of correction. Even so, cy: is still pretty inactive.
So can any of you help these wikis to live and grow? If this is impossible for some, should they be closed? I am thinking specifically of tlh: and dlm:; the first is an artificial language with no native speakers, and the second has been extinct for over a century with no particularly successful revival efforts ongoing.
Also, some wikis are hosted on Wikia (so new admins can't be appointed from UnMeta) and have no active admins and a good deal of spam and other junk, e.g. su:, ast:, ca:. I have already deleted the su: prefix from the wikis where I am an admin as I don't think that wiki can be helped by linking to it - but then someone else might think differently about this. Llwy ar lawr 20:20, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
- Now trying to write down my profile more concise: I'm native speaker Dutch/Flemish (C2), Norwegian (bokmål C2 + nynorsk B2), professional speaker of English (i.e. GB-English - B2) and French (B2), and (with many flaws) occasional speaker of German (B1), Swedish (B1), Danish (B1). I had Latin classes for 6 years (A2) and Ancient Greek for 4 years (A1), which gave me the ability to more or less understand a whole range of Roman languages (A1). Still not enough to create article with long and sofisticated sentences and there is much I forgot. Limited knowlegde (A0 - A1) of the Goth language, Letzebuergs, Limbourgian, Frisian, Scots, Faroese and Icelandic. That's it. So let's say I talk at least 5 languages and 2 dialects (which are not listed) at very fluently. These codes varying from A0 (lowest knowlegde) to C2 (native) are the official codes for the Common European Framework of Languages.
- Personally, I can't contribute to more than 3 wikis. We might try to search for human resources outside Uncyclomedia. People who are not necessarily familiar with the Mediawiki software. Organisations, (local) newspapers, blogs... We need to set up stategies for each wiki first.
- Why am I admin on all these new wikis then? I simply wait till someone wants to adopt them. Adoption was preceeded by a slow procedure before I wanted to take upon the craft of this 'job'. People had to post the request here, no answer, still no answer after moths and they eventually gave up. My suggestion is to let these wikis exist. Carlb pays an amount for it (preventing cybersquatting somehow), however, at some point in the past I suggested he could give up the domains and send all content to the corresponding iso-code in a subdomain like grc.uncyc.org or sco.uncyclopedia.info |
02:58, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
- Let us understand that the language I am Brazilian and therefore my native language is Portuguese, and possess a good understanding of Spanish and Galician (though not proven can be framed ns levels C1 to Spanish and B2 for Galician) what I accredits administration in Desgalipedia. However, I have a good knowledge of the English language (although with long sentences as I'm editing this point I prefer to use translators) Other languages, such as German have just a rudimentary understanding something like A2 or A3, French, Italian and even Latin believe in something like A1. In this case my participation is restricted to well Desgalipedia/UnMeta and Wikibooks although can edit without complications Çciclopédia using a good translator Portuguese/Mirandese.
- On the other hand, I agree with Cartooniost that these sites should be mantisdos since the epoch had reasons for their creation and maintenance although not the best possibilities can give these sites can eventually resume from sleep. From what I witnessed last year I can state two basic examples of this happening with wikis Persian and Bangla. I am against the elimination of wikis for future problems would result with possible future editors. Rhubella Marie, the rat sockpreppie 2,462 preppiedits 00:15, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
- I like the idea of developing strategies for each wiki. I'm not sure how to start off though. I could spam a bunch of forums with threads about the Uncyclopedias that need help but I might get banned if I did it wrong.
- I don't really want to close these wikis either. I was only thinking that, if we try hard to awaken them and they're still asleep after a year or more, there may be no way anything will ever happen with them. It would be an interesting exercise to try to learn Dalmatian, but possibly a futile one. I've looked at the vocabulary list and I wonder if there's really enough of the language known to write articles in it. I plan on trying to prove myself wrong about this, however.
- Also, about the Wikia wikis, I know it's possible to ask Wikia staff about adopting wikis. I suppose I should do that - no idea how receptive they'd be, or if I have enough of a bad reputation from this mess that they just hate me and want me gone. Llwy ar lawr 15:08, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
- (Also, Bangla is bn:, not bg:; bg: is Bulgarian.) Llwy ar lawr 15:34, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
- I don't speak any of those languages. Only Afrikaans, Limburgs & West-Vlaams look a lot like my native language, but I don't know anything about he exact differences. It's only English and German. In my opinion those dialects and small languages with e.g. less than 750.000 speakers are not necessary and seem server-waste to me. Though, they are here, and those who want to get possible users to there, can try to bring those alive and maybe rolling. The only way to make them active though, is to give it a reason why they should invest time in it - e.g. to make it widely known by creating funny articles. Roye7777777 ~ Talk 15:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Can we just let Wikia die? I have other plans with these projects. Here is a strategy:
- For non-Wikia projects:
- check if there is a Wikipedia article about Uncyclopedia in that language. If so, check if it contains an up-to-date link. If not, we should try to create it with a link to the Uncyclopedia in the corresponding language.
- post a polite message at language Uncyclopedia's Village dump with following arguments: minority language reinforced by a new project, no restrictions, non-commercial, freedom to have own policy...
- find forums about humour, culture, history in that language. Try to spam political youth parties.
- check if the language is spoken in more than one country in order to avoid unwanted favorisation (Hello all
DutchDutch-speaking comedians! Wanna join us?).
- social media: create Facebook page, linked from the project itself. Spam some fb-pages with polite messages that there is an Uncyclopedia in their language. It would also be a nice help if the Facebook-pages of en: and pt: could help us to spread the message. They have got the most fans/likes and it would surprise me if there were no fans who speak the language we are promoting.
- For Wikia projects: ... honestly, can we just leave that option? We've had a lot of trouble with them in the past, for full history see Complaint Wiki.
- We can export all pages (Special:Export) from an inactive Wikia wiki and put them on our servers (here for instance or on bjaodn.org) and label them with a category or so.
- Try to contact the inactive administrators and tell them that they can build up their wiki anytime with us.
- Positive response? Ask them to leave a message on the wikia wiki's main page and ask them to create an account here, so they can work on it before it moves to *.uncyc.org, *.uncyclopedia.info or other domain. Then we have to make sure we break the wikia wiki's continuity by changing the interwiki tables (Carl) and the uncyclopedia.info Babel main page (one of us). Finally, we try to convince the admins to remove the pages at wikia's wiki. This cannot be done unseen, so it should happen gradually.
- Negative response? Respect the answer. No response? We export the pages anyway.
23:53, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. I have found a thread on maes-e (a Welsh internet forum) about Celwyddoniadur and I am considering joining the site and posting on the thread about how we need more users or something. However it is a rather dead thread and I would be, as they say, 'necroposting' if I did that.
- I will try to find other Welsh forums that fit these requirements. I suppose only I can do this because nobody else around here speaks Welsh. user:Kymro does but he hasn't been here since 2008 and I seriously doubt he'll respond to the message I left on his talk page.
- I also would rather try to move the inactive Wikia wikis and your plan seems sensible. I don't know though about contacting the admins. On some of the wikis the only 'admins' you may be able to get in touch with are Wikia staff and of course they can't stand the idea of leaving - and can't really be considered to represent the community anyway, since they are not truly a part of it in most cases. I suspect that you will get no response from the local admins and no or a negative response from the Wikia staff. They will probably also block and/or desysop anyone who tries to remove content or leave directions to the new site. How much do the opinions of staff members matter for our purposes?
- Of course it's not guaranteed that you will not be able to get in touch with any local non-Wikia admins - if we do that's great - but I'm just wondering what we will do if we only get a response out of Wikia staff. Llwy ar lawr 16:48, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
- Also - in cy:Arbennig:RecentChanges I found the first case of vandalism in several months. Annoying but at least someone's using the site. Llwy ar lawr 17:13, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles about Uncyclopedia in these languages:
- Welsh: wp:cy:Celwyddoniadur (gives equal or greater weight to the Welsh version, though I am considering replacing it with a translation of the English article, which is about the English version, since the Welsh version is not especially notable as things are now, and the current article is a stub)
- Afrikaans: wp:af:Niesiklopedia (seems to give equal weight to the Afrikaans and English versions. I updated it to reflect the split of English Uncyclopedia)
- Catalan: wp:ca:Uncyclopedia (about the English version, but links to the Catalan site in 'external links')
- Bangla/Bengali (Google calls it Bengali): wp:bn:আনসাইক্লোপিডিয়া (according to Google Translate it just describes what Uncyclopedia is, but does not mention different languages, and the external links section seems to give greater weight to the English version)
- Georgian: wp:ka:ანციკლოპედია (same as above)
- Estonian: wp:et:Uncyclopedia (same as above; seems to discuss primarily the English version)
- Latin: wp:la:Necyclopaedia (seems to give greater weight to Latin version)
- Malagasy: wp:mg:Uncyclopedia (neither I nor Google can read Malagasy but I suspect it gives greater weight to the English version with Malagasy as an afterthought)
- Mongolian: wp:mn:Анциклопедиа (same - though as it is a stub it may give greater weight to the Mongolian version)
- Malay: wp:ms:Uncyclopedia (gives greater weight to the English and Indonesian versions (easily seen from the pictures and links))
- Occitan: wp:oc:Uncyclopedia (a sub-stub, which only mentions different languages now that I added an external links section; I've put English first due to the title)
- Norwegian nynorsk: wp:nn:Ikkjepedia (about the Nynorsk version, describes it as a Nynorsk version of Ikkepedia (Bokmål); English is an afterthought in the external links)
- Romanian: wp:ro:Neciclopedia (primarily about the Romanian version, also mentions the Moldovan and English - note also that Moldovan wikipedia has no article on it and never will because it is locked)
- Yiddish: wp:yi:קיינציקלאפעדיע (primarily about (i.e. linking to) the Yiddish and Hebrew versions)
- Serbian: wp:sr:Neciklopedija (not language-specific, uses Serbian name, links to English site first)
- So there you have it. Some of them have articles in their own right; most don't. (Also, on some wikis the prefix yi: is broken. Keinziklopedie is at http://keinziklopedie.wikia.com, but some prefixes point to http://keinziklopedie.org which is not a wiki and has no useful content whatsoever.) Llwy ar lawr 18:24, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Problems and stuff
I have no idea if this is at all coherent - today was crazy and it's really late but anyway...
- I do not see how we are going to successfully spam humour groups etc in the desired language if we do not know it. Are we just going to post in English or what? We can't just use Google Translate either as it does not know some of the necessary languages e.g. Malagasy. I am happy to post on Welsh things but the very problem we are trying to fix may also prove to inhibit attempts to fix it: we haven't got speakers of the necessary languages on board for the most part. I think Welsh is one of the only languages we can do this with without resorting to Google or English.
- Some of these wikis may exist both on Wikia and off it. I know that ka: does; the Wikipedia article about Uncyclopedia mentioned http://anciklopedia.wikia.com, which I changed to http://anciklopedia.org since I did not think the Wikia url could be right. But I was reverted and an explanation was left on my talk page - see wp:ka:User talk:Cathfolant for the discussion. The editor who reverted me actually turns out to be the admin/founder of Georgian Uncyc, and it seems he didn't give his permission for his wiki to be moved as he has essentially stated that the Wikia wiki is the 'real' wiki and the one that deserves to be in the Wikipedia article. I am puzzled why he was not on board for the move - can anyone explain this? He is quite active on the Wikia wiki and claims the wiki is 'active' just because he is there, and indeed it does have many more articles but really, neither wiki is active. Anyway, I am just wondering what we should do about this, as Georgian wiki is split and directing any users to only one or the other would seem biased to me.
- No idea if this will go anywhere but I have left a message on maes-e about Celwyddoniadur. Translation of what I wrote:
- I know this thread is dead but I do not want to post a new one - that would be spamming I think. I am sorry for any language mistakes (I am a learner).
- Currently there is one [Welsh] Uncyclopedia user who is active and who speaks Welsh, that is me, and we have 82 articles. The wiki is inactive and small. Is there anyone here who wants to contribute? I write articles from time to time but to make a wiki alive there is need for more than one user to contribute, especially when the user is a learner like me.
- It is very easy to edit Uncyclopedia. The below text comes from Wikipedia but it is suitable for Uncyclopedia as well:
- Did you know? As well as editing the encyclopedia, you can help us to develop and improve it! Anyone can edit any article by clicking on the word "Edit" on its top. If it does not exist yet, you can create a new one.
I would also like to know what this business with http://cy.uncyc.org is. It appears to have exactly the same content as cy: (http://cy.uncyclopedia.org.uk) and when one is changed so is the other. Llwy ar lawr 16:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)